Tiptoeing through the TULIP

This is a 2007 two-part attempt at presenting theology as a dramatic discussion inspired by Peter Kreeft, Bryan McLaren, and Roger Olson. I have not re-visited it in years because it is almost impossible to NOT sound preachy. Nevertheless, Part 1 "Tiptoeing through the TULIP" is a helpful exposition of my Soteriology, and Part 2 "What the hell is Hell?" is a helpful exposition of my Eschatology. 

Here in Part 1 we have a discussion about salvation, particularly what it means to be "saved", and who gets to be saved. Our characters represent the views of particular Christian traditions about salvation. 

CHARACTERS: We have ARMANDO representing the Arminian tradition, which stresses human free choice in accepting and participating in salvation. CAL is a Calvinist, and he stresses God's sovereignty over human freedom, and the free gift of God to save us regardless of what we do, or don't do, to "earn" salvation. CATHY is our Roman Catholic, and she stresses that salvation is not just individualistic, and it is more than a product that we earn. Salvation is communion with God that comes through the Community of the Church. LIBBY is our "Liberal" Christian, and she stresses God's Love for all of His creation, and his inclusion of all people in God's Love. Guiding the discussion is the University student chaplain, KARIS. While she holds particular views, she does not advocate any particular Christian tradition. She is fond of saying "You need to be part of THE Church, but not necessarily MY church".

SETTING: At a Coffee shop somewhere in a University town, we walk through the door to find two guys and three girls with their Bibles open in a heated discussion.

LIBBY: OK, so what is this Calvin flower you got in theology class? What does that mean?

CAL: It's not a flower. Its an acronym: T-U-L-I-P. Tulip.

LIBBY: OK: Tulip. What does the tulip mean?

CAL: "T" is for total depravity. It means that humans are so lost in sin that they cannot find God on their own, nor do any good on their own. Its all in Romans 1 through 3. All are wicked. No one does good. No one seeks God.

LIBBY: I just can’t buy that. People are by nature good. It even says it in the Bible. When God creates us, he says we are “very good”.

CATHY: Yes, but that is BEFORE the fall of man. After that, we have all been infected with original sin. That sin warps our ability to know, love, and follow God.

LIBBY: Yeah, but when I look at a baby I just can’t believe they are a sinner! They are very good.

CATHY: That may be how you feel, but babysit a 2 year old and you will find out about original sin real quick! [Everyone chuckles]

LIBBY: Well, maybe we are selfish sometimes- maybe that even infects human nature- but surely we are not evil! We just need more education, more understanding, and we will live good lives.

KARIS: Libby, you are talking here about the modern myth of progress through technology and knowledge. If what you say is true, then the last 100 years should have been the most peaceful, enlightened, harmonious century in human history… Because we have had more technology, knowledge, education, and opportunity than at any time before.

But just the opposite is true. Last century is the bloodiest. And by the looks of the news, it isn’t getting any better!

CAL: That just proves my point: TOTAL depravity.

ARMANDO: Well, what about the pagan mother and father that knows how to feed and raise their child, like Jesus talks about when he says “If you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children”? Is that not good? And when Paul speaks of pagans who have the moral law of right and wrong written in their hearts in Romans 2. Is that not good?

CAL: Well, I said humans are no good. I didn’t say God was no good. God gives common grace to all people so they won’t be as bad as they could possibly be. And as for the Law, he gives it to all people to prove they are sinful and sick. But the Law has no power to actually make them good.

ARMANDO: That’s really close to what we mean when we speak of God’s “prevenient” grace. It is grace that God gives all people to prevent them from falling as far into evil as they would on their own. This grace also shows them they need to be healed of sin, and calls them to healing in Christ.

CAL: Not exactly. Common grace is not “prevenient” because while it restrains evil and convicts us we are sinful, it does not call people to Christ. We need God's special grace to do that.

CATHY: So, you are saying that God’s common grace is enough to make people know they are miserable, but not enough to heal them? Is God a physician that diagnoses our sickness, but then kicks us out of his office and says he won’t heal us? Are you saying that God is a great Creator but a lousy doctor?

CAL: No. God does give special grace to US, to heal US, and bring US to salvation.

KARIS: Who is US? Everyone in this coffee shop? Everyone in this University?

CAL: I mean US who know Christ. Who have faith. Who put no trust in their own works to save them, but cling solely to Christ. This ties in to the rest of the TULIP.

ARMANDO: Yeah right. God’s salvation is only for those who CHOOSE Christ . Everyone else cuts themselves off from God’s healing.

CAL: Well, not exactly. This is where Arminians get it backwards. It isn’t we who choose God, but God who chooses us. Like Jesus said “You did not choose me, but I chose you”. We choose God because God first chose us.

LIBBY: Hold up. So you are saying that God gives enough grace to make ALL people realize that they are sick and screwed up, but only gives grace to a chosen few to heal them? God wants some people to be sick, forever?

CAL: Well, they deserve to be sick. They have chosen sinful actions to make themselves sick, and do not deserve to have God heal them because they let themselves get sick.

KARIS: By “they” you mean “we” right? We are all sinners, and we have all made ourselves sick, and we all bear the “blame” for being sick and getting sicker.

CAL: Well, yeah. We are all sick and deserve to stay sick. But God has chosen some of us out of the mass of sickness to heal. It is a glorious gift we don't deserve!

ARMANDO: So some of us get the gift, and God leaves everyone else to suffer and die… forever?

CAL: Ummm. I do not think you are getting the deep logic of the TULIP. Let me explain the whole system, and it will make perfect sense to you.

LIBBY: Can’t wait to hear this.

CAL: “T”, like I said, is for "total depravity". “U” refers to God’s "unconditional election" of sinners to salvation. God chooses some to save, and predestines them based on nothing they have done. He just chooses to have mercy on them and save them as a free gift, as grace. If God's election was based on some condition, something we did to make us "worth" it, we would all fall short of salvation. But if God chooses just one of us, that is more grace than ANY of us merit!

“L” refers to "limited atonement". It is also called "particular redemption". It means that Jesus' death and resurrection saves only those who have been elected by God . Of course, it is not limited in the sense that Jesus’ payment for sins could cover all people and all sins ever committed . But, it is limited by God’s decree, because God only decrees to apply it to the elect.

“I” refers to "irresistible grace". It means that once a person is elected and atoned for, that the Holy Spirit will irresistibly draw them to God so that they will choose to have faith in Christ, and be saved. He doesn’t choose for them, or operate them like puppets, but the Spirit makes them WANT to choose Christ through persuasion. Because the Spirit knows everything about them, He is able to set up situations and relationships that will perfectly persuade them to accept Christ.

“P” refers to the "perseverance of the elect". God will bring them unfailingly to salvation. He will never stop loving them, or give up on them. God will relentlessly pursue them until they are safe in his arms. Paul says that nothing in all creation- not even life or death - will be able to separate them from His Love in Christ . As Jesus says “no one can snatch them out of my hand”.

ARMANDO: Wow. Nice summary. But what about those who have faith in Jesus for a while, and they die without Jesus?

CAL: Simple. They were “bad soil” for the seed of faith to grow in . They never had real faith. They were never one of the elect. Its just like when John talks about people leaving the Church because they were never really a part of it. People who die apart from Christ show that they were never in Christ… never elect… never Called… never saved.

KARIS: That simple, huh? So I have this uncle who had faith in Christ when he was a kid. He was baptized and everything. He sang in the choir, went on mission trips, and taught Sunday school. He was my God-father. But he contracted AIDS in the 80's and was utterly rejected by the Church. I still remember someone talking about how he got what he deserved from the "gay plague". 

He returned the favor and publicly rejected Christ and said “If God’s people can do this to me, then I don’t need a God like that”. He died in 1995. Now, look me in the face and tell me that he was never saved, and that God does not love him.

CAL: I’m sorry for being so flippant. But let’s distinguish between being “saved” and being loved by God. God loves everyone, but He only saves some. Your uncle is loved by God, but God did not save Him.

LIBBY: Let me get this straight: You are saying her uncle is roasting in the fires of hell right now, in eternal misery, and God loves Him so much that he will keep roasting him there forever?

CAL: I don’t think hell is a cosmic BBQ pit run by God… or by the devil for that matter. It is separation from God, alienation from His Love, and the “fires” are the flames of inner pain and regret that we have rejected God and denied eternal life. It is self-chosen, not God-chosen. It is the natural consequence of our sin, not something imposed on us by God. We chose to deny God, and God allows us to do that, and live with that choice forever.

KARIS: So, my uncle is alienated from God’s love, alone in hell forever, but God still loves Him? Is it a "secret love", known to God alone, that my uncle can in now way see, touch, or feel? Has God chosen, in love, to abandon my uncle so he can never experience God's love?

LIBBY: That is like a father who says to his kid: “Don’t play by that water well. You will fall in and die”. And the kid is like “You can’t tell me what to do! I can play without falling in!” So the kid plays, falls in, and from the bottom of the well, with broken arms and ribs, screams for help. 

But his father remains silent, and is thinking nice, loving thoughts like “I really love that kid, but what he did is his own damned fault and he is going to live with the consequences forever. Out of love, I am not going to speak to him, and I will leave him in the bottom of the well.”

KARIS: If that happened in real life, what would society do to that father?

LIBBY: Lock him in prison forever! I’m not for the death penalty, but that might deserve it!

CAL: Well, uh… yeah, WE would lock him away, but GOD is not like a human father… His love is higher, on a different level we can’t understand… We cannot judge him by OUR human standards.

KARIS: But JESUS told us to compare the love of a human father to the love of God! Like Armando quoted before: “if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your father in heaven give good gifts to his children”! Yes, God’s love is higher, because God is better, not WORSE than a human father.

How do we judge what REAL love is? If we need a standard to measure God’s Love, where do we look?

CAL: I guess to the Bible. Yeah to the Bible. That’s the standard.

ARMANDO: And to Jesus. He told us to love each other as he has loved us. He is God’s love made human flesh.

KARIS: Well, lets go with the Bible first. The Bible I have has an entire chapter defining what God means when God says Love. It is 1Corinthians 13. It wasn’t just written for weddings. It was written to help us know what REAL love is all about, the kind of love that God gives and God lives. 

It says: “Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.”

Cal, do you agree that this is God’s definition of Love? I mean, God’s Love may be more than this, but not less, right?

CAL: Well, yeah. I can’t argue with Scripture. That is God’s Love.

KARIS: This love always perseveres. It is the same love you speak of in the “perseverance of the elect”. It never gives up. God’s love doesn’t abandon people. It doesn’t leave people to die in a well, even if they deserve it. Would you agree with that?

CAL: Yes… God the Father would not just leave his kid in the well.

KARIS: But that is what you are saying about my uncle. God has left him in a well… forever. My uncle can’t climb out of the well of hell. I suppose that as a sinner, my uncle deserves to be there. We all do. But you say that God has abandoned him there, yet God has elected others to save? That means that God must not love my uncle in your theology.

CAL: It all gets so personal when you speak like that. I don’t want to get personal, I just want to talk about theology. About the truth.

KARIS: But if theology can’t be said with a straight face to real people… to real, hurting people, then it is not good theology, is it?

And the word “theology” means “God talk”, or "talking about God". God, last time I checked, is a person and not a science experiment. That means that theology IS personal. If it cannot bring real people together with a real God, it isn’t real theology, is it?

CAL: Listen. Stop picking on me. I am just trying to tell you what Christian theology… er, Church doctrine… er, Calvinism is all about. It’s not like it is life or death or brain surgery.

KARIS: But it is life and death. My uncle died hating the kind of God you are speaking of. It is brain surgery, because the images and ideas about God that we get into our brains affect everything we do in life. If we have a screwed up picture of God, it will screw up who we see ourselves as, what we see the world as, and how we live in the world.

I don’t want to be harsh, but the TULIP picture of God is screwed up, and it screws up people’s lives. It gives us a God who loves some and hates others, for no apparent reason other than his “mysterious will”. Is God a slot machine, or does he just play favorites? The logical box you have built with the TULIP does not look at all like the flesh and blood Jesus we find in Scripture.

ARMANDO: Yeah. What I was saying. Jesus gives us the ultimate standard for what love looks like lived out. The Apostle John tells us: 

“This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. ”

KARIS: Right. And that brings in another thing about God’s love. God’s love ACTS to redeem people. It is impossible to say that people are alienated from God in hell, but that God somehow still loves them and has nice thoughts about them, yet God DOES nothing. Jesus has a word for that: Hypocrisy.

So, if God loves someone, he keeps reaching out to save them. He never stops. He never gives up. He never abandons them, no matter how much they "deserve" it. As Psalm 139 says to God: “If I go up to the heights of heaven, you are there. If I go down to the depths of hell, you are there”. Its not like death is some kind of barrier that stops God's Love. Jesus destroyed the barrier of death to bring us to God's Love! Not even death can separate us from God's Love!

CAL: I guess you are right. Death is no barrier to God. And God can’t love someone and allow them to stay in hell without reaching out to them, without trying to save them.

But, hell is the end of the road. I don’t get it. Maybe God DOES create some for evil and some for good, some he hates and some he loves.

ARMANDO: But that makes God directly responsible for evil and sin, because he actually WANTS evil people to do evil, and destines them to do it! How can we say that God is good and loving?

CAL: I don’t know. Maybe it’s a mystery. But those words sound so… hollow.

KARIS: Is that "god"- the "god" who creates some to hate and abandon, and others to love and save- is that "god" worthy of worship and praise? Is that the God we see in Jesus?

CAL: Honestly. No. I am morally better than that "god"… And I am really sorry about your uncle, I don’t know what to say. I didn’t want to make you mad.

KARIS: It’s OK. I am not mad. A little agitated at your Calvinism… but then again nearly every "ism" agitates me, because they all tend to cut off Jesus' arms and legs to stuff him in their logical box. But I am not mad, because we’re all trying to figure this stuff out.

ARMANDO: But this is where my "ism", Arminianism, offers a clear solution. It is not based on God’s choice, but ours. God gives everyone the “prevenient grace” that we need to choose him. All we have to do is choose.

CAL: So what do you do with predestination and election? Romans and Ephesians are clear that God chooses and predestines those in Christ.

ARMANDO: Well, that is simple. We believe that God foreknows those who will choose to believe and receive Christ, and he elects and predestines them because he knows what they will do.

CAL: So God chooses those who choose him first?

ARMANDO: No, he foresees it. So, God chooses first.

CAL: No, God only chooses because he knows he will be chosen. Its kind of like getting an email from the future saying who will win the superbowl, so that you can bet on the winning team.

In your scheme, God is passive. He reacts only because we act, even though his reaction comes before we actually act. It puts mankind in control of salvation, not God. It reverses what Jesus says when he says “You did not choose me, but I chose you”.

ARMANDO: But God acts first to give us prevenient grace, so we can only choose because God gave us the grace and ability to choose.

KARIS: But Cal has a point. Your scheme still puts humans in charge of salvation. For you, God only chooses to save you because you are worth saving.

ARMANDO: WHAT?

KARIS: Think about it this way. In your scheme God gives everyone prevenient grace, right? And that grace is enough that anyone can co-operate with it and choose Christ and come to salvation, right?

ARMANDO: Right on both counts. Equal, saving grace for everyone.

KARIS: So why isn’t everyone saved? Why isn’t my uncle saved?

ARMANDO: His choice. He didn’t choose to have faith, or rather, he did not choose to maintain faith.

KARIS: So my uncle wasn’t good enough to stay faithful?

ARMANDO: I guess that’s right.

KARIS: So you are saying that God only chooses people who are good enough to stay faithful, those that merit being elected? It’s no longer Christ alone that saves us, but Christ plus our worthiness.

ARMANDO: That’s not what I meant to say.

CAL: But if God only elects people based on whether or not they were “good” enough to use his prevenient grace correctly, and believe, then it is salvation by works. Or at least salvation by personal merit. That is why God’s election has to be free and unconditional. God can’t merely save us because we are good enough, or else grace is no longer grace.

Salvation is pure grace: a free, undeserved gift. But in your scheme God is only giving it to people who deserve it. Furthermore, this belittles Christ’s work on the cross. He is all we need to be saved, but you are saying that it is him plus our merit.

ARMANDO: But in your scheme God plays favorites too. God makes some who will be good enough to be saved, and others that are “vessels of wrath” who cannot be saved. I think I would rather have a God who doesn’t save us because we aren’t good enough than a God who makes inferior people just to damn them forever.

CAL: I agree, I think. Karis has made me well aware of the God-problems that my scheme presents. But your scheme has problems too. It isn’t the solution.

KARIS: Armando, do you want a God who loves you unconditionally, or who gives up on you if you are not good enough?

ARMANDO: You know the answer.

KARIS: Which God picture does your theology point you to?

ARMANDO: A God who gives up on me. But I really believe that God does love EVERYONE unconditionally, just like John 3:16 says. I believe that he wants to save everyone and bring them to salvation, just like 1st Timothy and 2nd Peter says. I believe that God has done- and is doing- everything God can to bring us to receive His Love.

KARIS: So, are you are saying that God does love everyone unconditionally, but that he isn’t strong enough or persuasive enough to bring them to love Him in return?

ARMANDO: I guess that is what I am saying. Human freedom is required for love to be love. Love cannot be forced on someone else. Forced love is a form of assault. And God cannot program robots who act like they love him- even if those robots were programmed to believe that they freely chose to love him. That might feel like love to the robots, but to their creator it would be fake.

So, God has to make us free to accept or deny him. Truly free. Frighteningly free. And some, sadly, will never make that choice.

CAL: I agree, we have to be free to accept or deny God's Love. And I don't know how real freedom could work if God really is sovereign. But still, in the long run, your view smacks of God only loving those who are good enough to love.

KARIS: And it reveals a deeper problem about the Arminian God too. The Arminian God apparently lacks the knowledge to persuade people to love him, and lacks the willpower to be more stubborn than his creation.

ARMANDO: How so?

KARIS: In the Arminian scheme, humans win against God eventually. God wants them to love him, but they out-stubborn him. As some point, human freedom seems to tire God out, and God throws in the towel and gives up on people.

ARMANDO: Geez. I can’t worship the two faced God of Calvinism, but the wimpy God of Arminianism doesn’t seem worthy of worship either. [with a smile] Karis, you are screwing up everything! But, I seriously don’t know where to go from here…

CATHY: I have been pretty silent so far, but I have a couple of things to say about this debate. First of all, you are treating salvation like a product to be bought and sold. It is like you think that salvation is a package that God gives you, which you store away to open when you die. That misses the point entirely.

Salvation is communion with God. Salvation is being united into the love of the Holy Trinity, through Jesus Christ, by the power of the Spirit. It is a life that starts growing right here, right now, and it keeps growing through us forever. It is a “good infection” that spreads through our whole being and gradually destroys the “bad infection” of sin.

CAL: Fair enough. Salvation isn’t a thing. It is communion, what we like to call a “personal relationship with Jesus”.

CATHY: And that leads to my other point. It is not JUST a personal relationship with Jesus. It is a communal relationship with Jesus too. The new life of Christ is like an infection that spreads through us to others… and like an infection, it is spread many ways.

Salvation- Jesus life and love- is spread to us through “spiritual ways” as we believe in Christ individually. But it is also spread to us in physical ways, as we are united to His OWN Body, the Church, through Baptism, Eucharist, and other rituals that join us to Him.

Your salvation schemes have little place for communion, and no place for community. It is like you are looking at salvation as only a me-and-Jesus thing. The Church, which is His own Body, fits in nowhere in your scheme. If something is the very Body of Christ, and if Christ is the one who saves us, you would figure His Body would fit in SOMEWHERE, right?

ARMANDO: I guess I never thought about it. I always thought of the Church in a separate place from salvation. I have seen the Church as a place where saved people gather to hang out, but it is really the organism that God works through to save people.

CAL: I think Cathy is on to something. The Church must figure in this debate- this TULIP- somewhere. It is the organism through which God reaches out to the world. Evangelists are part of the Church. The Bible is taught in the Church. Growth happens in the Church. Yeah, you are right. We are too individualistic.

CATHY: A billion Catholics can’t be wrong!

LIBBY: Wait! If every…

CATHY: I know. We CAN be wrong, and are wrong on some issues. But we are right in insisting that salvation has everything to do with communion with God AND community as Christ’s Body.

LIBBY: Even a liberal can agree with that.

KARIS: I hate to be devil’s advocate… Well, I actually I love it… but anyway: Cathy, if what you are saying is true, then why isn’t everyone Catholic already?

CATHY: What?

KARIS: If the Catholic Church- or any church for that matter- is chosen to be God’s instrument to bring people into communion with Him, then why hasn’t that happened yet? And why are churches often so hateful, and so worried about who to exclude? I mean if God wants to reach out to the world through the Church, then why is the Church- all churches- so busy keeping people at arm’s length?

CATHY: Are you saying your church or denomination is better than mine?

KARIS: Not at all. We ALL have this problem. If what you have pointed out about salvation is true, then why do we do such a bad job at it?

LIBBY: I have been saying this for years. We just need to bust down all of the walls between churches- and even between religions- and live in harmony! Having an organization like a church is so repressive and authoritarian. We should just worship God any way we feel like.

KARIS: But Libby, can’t you see this is just the flipside of the problem with communal religion? In your scheme, we are back to just a whole bunch of individuals doing their own thing without regard to each other. Everybody picks their own God and worships accordingly, but there is no community of God, no people joined together.

LIBBY: I never thought of it like that.

KARIS: Extreme individualism, like you are advocating, doesn’t make us more loving, God-centered people. It makes us more selfish, my-way-or-the-highway people. To learn how to love God means to learn how to love His family, with all of the good, the bad, the ugly, and the messy people in it. Community- real, concrete community- is the only way to fulfill Jesus’ commandments to love God above all and love our neighbors as ourselves .

CATHY: And if salvation is what I think it is, communion with God and community with God's people, then we need to practice what we are going to be for eternity. We can't learn how to live in community if everyone is making up their own religion- and their own God- all the time. There has to be a community to connect us to God. That's the Church.

LIBBY: I guess you are right. In one of my favorite Bible books, the first letter of John, we are constantly told that we love God by loving others, and we love others through loving God. You can't love others without BEING a community, and BRINGING people into that community. But it has to be a loving, accepting community that reaches out in love, and doesn't hold people at arms length. If that is what the Church is, then I am all for the Church.

CAL: But that's just the deal: That ISN'T the Church. We have a long, long history of royally screwing up that very simple mission.

ARMANDO: So how can the Church be a key element in salvation, and also be a huge impediment to salvation, at the same time?

CATHY: Because God is messy? My parents not only had me and my older brother, but they adopted my two younger sisters as well. They did this even though they knew how messy it would get, and how ugly we could act. But they only adopted my sisters after they knew we would really accept them as full members of our family.

Is God a Father that wants to adopt everyone into His Family? He tells us "Hey, I love everyone and want to adopt them into this Family, but I want you to want them too". Does God choose to let His Love get limited by the love and acceptance of His Family?

KARIS: I think you are on to something here. I have heard an idea that goes something like this: Jesus Christ is the elect one, and every part of His Body is elect because it is connected to Him. If a person is elect, then every cell of their body is also elect. God doesn’t elect and predestine at random, nor because he foresees personal faith. 

Rather, He predestines a whole organism- Christ and His Body- to be saved. God elects those whom He foreknows that the Church will reach out to. He predestines those who the Body will incorporate into itself, and he brings them to a personal faith in Him within this community. 

This idea makes sense of passages where Jesus says stuff to his disciples like “The one who receives you receives me, and the one who receives me receives the one who sent me”. Not only does the “good infection” of Christ’s new life spread through our being, but we also spread it through relationships with others.

CAL: I like your idea, but it doesn’t work either. First of all, it seems like the Church drives away almost as many people as it draws in. Second of all- and I don’t want to be a jerk- look at your uncle.

He was joined to you in a relationship, yet he still died apart from Christ. And I do not want to say where he is right now, because God can do anything- but my theology says he is in hell. I am not saying he is. I am just saying that is where Scripture and logic seem to lead me.

KARIS: I’m not mad Cal. If death is the end of the story, then you are sadly right.

LIBBY: My turn. I have heard you tap-dance around the problem here for the last 30 minutes. The problem is hell. It is a horrible word, a horrible concept, and such a bad doctrine that Cal can’t even bring himself to say with certainty that Karis’ uncle is there!

Hell is the problem. It is an outdated concept from a retrograde God, and we should just get rid of it. The God of hell is not the God I see in Jesus Christ. I say we get rid of that cruel hoax and focus on Jesus’ love instead. Jesus, yes. Hell, no.

KARIS: Well, Libby [Eyes widen]… Wait [looks at watch]… Crud! Its 5:20, and I have to go get Josh's work shirts from the dry cleaners before 5:30. Can you all hang here for about 30 minutes, and I will come back to finish this discussion?

EVERYONE: Yeah / Sure / No problem.

KARIS: OK guys. Be back in 30. Play nice while I'm gone!

CAL: [Smiling] No problem! That is what I was destined to do!

ARMANDO: [Smiling] It's what I CHOOSE to do!

KARIS: Guys! [Smiles and walks out the door]

Continued in Part 2: What the hell is Hell?